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Forearm Escutcheons
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Daryl Hallquist
Optimus


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three birds, here's a side view.

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3birddogs
Sideplate


Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Location: wheeling,wva

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I am sure we all appreciate those pics. many thanks. I am hoping to shoot my newto me DS 20 this week at the Southern and will drop by with it at the Lefever display
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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to yet another H Grade with the plain round forearm escutcheon.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=537238080

The wood on this gun appears to be in very good original condition. Too bad the barrels were cut. I have sent a message to the seller to ask the serial number range of this gun. These seem to be more common than I originally thought, and it surprises me that Robert Elliot never mentioned them in his books.

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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The seller has e-mailed me with the serial number of this gun.
It is 26509 which puts it within the serial number range of 259xx to 31xxx that we have observed within this thread.
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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's yet another one with the plain smooth round escutcheon. This one is a G Grade with a serial no. of 276xx

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=537472901



Oops, sorry. This is the same gun I mentioned several months ago with the 24" cut barrels and the stock shield. With a $915.00 opening bid, I expect we'll be seeing this one for a long time.

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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is yet another picture of a Lefever with the plain round forend escutcheon. This one is from an H Grade with twist barrels, and serial no. 30637.

This serial number falls within the observed range of 259xx to 31xxx we've seen within this thread. It's too bad that many of the pics have disappeared with the recent ransomware moves by Photobucket, and the 90 day expiration limit for Gunbroker image postings. But every example provides further evidence of a forearm escutcheon type previously unrecognized by LACA, the Robert Elliot books, or other Lefever researchers. It's nice to know that there is still plenty of undiscovered information for collectors of even lower grade Lefevers to unearth. I hope others will keep looking for this variation, and add to this thread when you find yet another one.


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mslee
Optimus


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 132
Location: Krum, TX

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SidebySide,
I applaud your determination on the subject! I have noted this type of forend in my notes and I'm sure others have as well. I agree, if everyone took the time to pull out all their Lefevers and thoroughly inspect them we would find a lot more with forend like the one you have pointed out as well as many other features that have gone unnoticed.
Thanks again,
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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Shane. Here's yet another one that popped up last week. This one was on an H Grade s/n 27866 with 30" barrels and 2 1/2" chambers, choked F&M:



I agree with your statement that there are probably a lot of little details we just haven't noticed and documented on our guns. The many variations make them all the more interesting, but it can sure complicate things when some internal part breaks, and you learn it was only used for a short time. I looked at a number of these plain round forend escutcheons before I realized they weren't simply a worn dog's head or a replacement for a missing dog's head.
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Marks_21
Optimus


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 299
Location: Crockett VA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is still my opinion/ best guess that the supply of dogs head pieces ran out before the supply of semi inletted forends. Maybe the supplier kept saying "end of the month " and they continued to cut wood. Then someone had to solve it. --"throw a plug in it and use them on the lowest grade."
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Bob Noble
Optimus


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: forend Reply with quote

I have a gun in the 27000 range that is Gacha-percha ( don't think its spelled right) then it has a ivory star in the middle with a ebony dot in the center of the star.
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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, gutta-percha is an early form of hard rubber made from latex, that was used to make things like buttplates, grip caps, handgun grips, early radio knobs, knife handles and etc. I have wondered if these inserts or escutcheons might be made of gutta-percha because of the variation in color ranging from deep brown to almost black. Some almost look like horn, but horn is so hard to work that it was typically used only on higher grade guns of that era. We see the same coloration in original Lefever buttplates compared to the jet black injection molded reproductions on the market.

I suppose someone could have altered the one on your gun by inletting the ivory star and ebony dot to make the plain round insert look a bit fancier. It is in that same serial number range where we're seeing these things.

And I'd still like to know what company or companies supplied Lefever and other gunmakers with their buttplates, grip caps, etc.
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Bob Noble
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Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Forend Reply with quote

I'm sure mine is gutta percha as its turning green.

I don't think someone altered the gun after it left the factory. The gun is a whole story in its self. I'm about 99% sure its a real lunchbox gun. Lots of different things on the gun. Like a shield where the patent dates go. 1900 where the serial number should be, the list goes on and on.
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ADG
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Low Country, South Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, interesting that yours is turning green.

Almost all older smoking pipes had stems made of Vulcanite, a form of vulcanized rubber with a very high sulfur content. If Vulcanite stems are not regularly polished and oiled they will begin to oxidize and turn green.

I wonder if the inserts might be Vulcanite as opposed to gutta-percha? Oils from the supporting hand might keep most of the inserts from oxidizing but now with disuse perhaps some are starting to turn?
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