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Marks_21
Optimus


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Crockett VA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Something better to talk about. Reply with quote

For days I have hoped for something better to talk about. Let keep this forum better than some others

What is this bird? Often seen on 20k serial F grades.

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Lefty/lefever/guy
Optimus


Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Elmira

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Name that Bird? Reply with quote

I'd say it's a (diving for a meal) King Fisher? As a game Bird remotely a member of the Snipe family, possibly Jack Snipe!
Lefty/Lefever/Guy,
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Sentry44
Optimus


Joined: 17 Mar 2015
Posts: 129
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My very uneducated guess is its a woodcock or a snipe. The kingfisher has a sleeker head and beak than the OP's bird, to my eye.

Google images has some decent diving images of all three.

- Sentry
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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The S-curved neck in flight is a dead give away that the bird depicted in the F Grade engraving is likely an egret, or possibly a species of heron.



I fail to see any degeneration of this site due to the recent discussions of the aftermarket embellished Lefever Nitro. At least it was a Lefever of sorts. Just not the kind of Lefever that the owner wanted desperately to believe it was. Had we said little or nothing about it, we would have likely been stuck with his delusions for years to come. Hopefully, some neophytes will learn something from all of it about the misrepresentations that sometimes occur in the world of gun trading and collecting.
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Marks_21
Optimus


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Crockett VA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather talk about the nitro than banter about an individual's character and motives.
Now I've owned 4 guns with that heron but only seen 1 like this:




Last edited by Marks_21 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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2-Piper
Optimus


Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Lynchburg, TN

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marks21;
As best as I can recall that's the first Bunny I've seen on a Lefeve. As an old Beagle Man I like it. Is that an F grade also? My very first Lefever was an FE, it has a duck (mallard as I recall) on one plate & quail on the other. I have seen several others with the same ones,. but it is not the duck most commonly seen which appears to be falling. It is flying over a marsh. The quail also is ion flight.
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Miller
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Lefty/lefever/guy
Optimus


Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Elmira

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Lefever engraving the most varied & life like shotguns Reply with quote

2-Piper,
I agree that's a nicely done rabbit, and well depicted in it's natural habitat!
I began hunting rabbits outside Piits. w/ a Ithaca 37 pump 12g, before discovering grouse & sxs smaller gauge shotguns. Mark_21 you always show the most variety of all guns Lefever especially in the F grades; I wish I did pictures as I have a 1895 F grade and not only does it have the goose landing in a marsh but on the other side a quail in a grassy field ; however I've also noticed various engraving (Although not as extensive as the acorns etc. of higher grades) on other F grades you show. My 1895 F (sears on the side plate, pin through the water table & ejectors) also displays a semi circular line engraving on each breech ball w/ an arrow pointing at its apex toward the muzzel of each barrel, I bring this up as it's the only one I've ever seen on any
other F grade or other lower grade Lefever? Possibly you could show a comparison of the various breechball engraved lower F or G grade Lefevers?
Finally, congrats on your beautifully conceived E G compiled Lefever as it brings together some great features on a Lefever - straight English stock, w/ engraving initial plate, Boss rails under the receiver and the beautiful Clamshell release forearm - As well literally a 16 g gun on a 20 g frame - an exceedingly well conceived Upland Lefever Special...
Lefty/Lefever/Guy,
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Marks_21
Optimus


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Crockett VA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too, am a beagle chasing rabbit hunter from the hills around Pittsburgh. Carnegie. I have been hoping for a bunny gun from day one. It, and this Ithaca 20 are my favorites.
http://lefeverforum.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=947&highlight=rabbit
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mslee
Optimus


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 127
Location: Krum, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a first for me as well! Do post more pics of this gun, I'd love to see what scroll work is associated with it!
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Shane Lee

mslee0871@yahoo.com
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mslee
Optimus


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 127
Location: Krum, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a first for me as well! Do post more pics of this gun, I'd love to see what scroll work is associated with it!
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Shane Lee

mslee0871@yahoo.com
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Lefty/lefever/guy
Optimus


Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Elmira

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Lefever engraving the most varied & life like shotguns Reply with quote

2-Piper,
I agree that's a nicely done rabbit, and well depicted in it's natural habitat!
I began hunting rabbits outside Piits. w/ a Ithaca 37 pump 12g, before discovering grouse & sxs smaller gauge shotguns. Mark_21 you always show the most variety of all guns Lefever especially in the F grades; I wish I did pictures as I have a 1895 F grade and not only does it have the goose landing in a marsh but on the other side a quail in a grassy field ; however I've also noticed various engraving (Although not as extensive as the acorns etc. of higher grades) on other F grades you show. My 1895 F (sears on the side plate, pin through the water table & ejectors) also displays a semi circular line engraving on each breech ball w/ an arrow pointing at its apex toward the muzzel of each barrel, I bring this up as it's the only one I've ever seen on any
other F grade or other lower grade Lefever? Possibly you could show a comparison of the various breechball engraved lower F or G grade Lefevers?
Finally, congrats on your beautifully conceived E G compiled Lefever as it brings together some great features on a Lefever - straight English stock, w/ engraving initial plate, Boss rails under the receiver and the beautiful Clamshell release forearm - As well literally a 16 g gun on a 20 g frame - an exceedingly well conceived Upland Lefever Special...
Lefty/Lefever/Guy,
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sidebyside16
Optimus


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marks_21 wrote:
I'd rather talk about the nitro than banter about an individual's character and motives.


Of course. But you have to remember that it was one individual who seemed hell bent upon dominating the discussions here with speculation, fantasy, and photos of one particular Nitro Special with after market engraving and carving. Apparently, he has done the same thing for quite some time on other sites, but he didn't like being politely and soundly confronted with the truth about his gun by several of us here. The humoring and fake politeness that went on over at some of those other sites probably contributed to encouraging the original poster to keep it up. But it appears that being bluntly told the truth has made him leave us here. Because of that, we are now free to discuss real Lefever engraving patterns.

Your F grade with the rabbit scene is very interesting to me because it seems to have both unusual subject matter and a greater than normal amount of coverage for an earlier F grade with sideplate mounted sears. I'd also be interested in seeing the engraving on the other sideplate and the rest of the gun, as well as the serial number range. I'm assuming that this is a two hook gun. A lot of earlier F grades had the floral scroll in the center of the sideplates without any game scene, but I think the floral scroll was more centered on the plate to the rear of the cocking indicator. For that reason, I'm inclined to think the engraving is all original, and may have been ordered by a customer at additional cost, or maybe even done by one of the engravers for an employee's gun.
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Joe Stromski
Sideplate


Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to agree with the egret,heron theory.Those long legs and that long point beak appear to be those of some type of predatory wading bird for sure.That rabbit is really sharp too.My first guess as to what's on the other side was....Elmer Fudd.But then I found out he wasn't introduced until 1940.That's the thing about these guns,I think you would be hard pressed to find two guns of a higher grade that were absolutely identical.From what I've read Uncle Dan was more about building guns for individuals,not the masses.Seems I saw somewhere he kind of became disallusioned with the Lefever Arms Co. when they wanted to introduce the DS grade (for the masses) and left to start D.M.Lefever and Sons in 1901.He preferred to concentrate on building on gun the way a person requested it to be.I was lucky enough to stumble upon one at at a show a year or so back,he has it all over the other makers at the time in my humble opinion.New guns don't even begin to compare with them.
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Daryl Hallquist
Optimus


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the topic started here. Engraving styles are fun. One can also find other interesting things in the engraving. This D M 5B has the name of the owner/shooter engraved on it. A search of the name turns up many hits in the early 1900s showing the shooter in league with many other top shooters of the day. Provenance is interesting, too.



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Marks_21
Optimus


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Crockett VA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started these pages a while back... Happy to finish them up and make changes if that interests anyone.
http://lefevercollectors.com/index.php?p=2_2_F-grade-Photos-

http://lefevercollectors.com/index.php?p=2_1_C-grade-Photos
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